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| Upgrade diary: Gateway G6-400 |
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Tuesday, November 26 2002 @ 12:49 AM CST By David L. Farquhar
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I recently had the displeasure of working on a Gateway G6-400. I'll relate some of the experiences here, in case you ever have the same misfortune.
The G6-400 looks good on paper. This particular configuration had a P2-400 in it on an Intel mobo (BX chipset), a 16-meg 3dfx video card (hot for the time), and a DVD drive. The owner complained it was slow and unstable. The usual cure for that is to remove the extra crap Gateway installs on all their PCs.
Unfortunately, this one wouldn't boot to let me do that. Not even in safe mode. Nice, eh?
Memory problem? I tried several known-good DIMMs. Same results.
Power supply? I tried a known-good, brand-name power supply. Same results.
At some point, the hard drive made an ominous noise. I replaced the hard drive and attempted a clean install of Win98SE. It bombed out at random points during installation. Just in case it was the DVD drive, I tried several different CD-ROM drives. (Hey, I was desperate.) Same result.
Out of curiosity, I put the suspect hard drive in another computer and tried to boot it in safe mode (I didn't want Windows to mess up the configuration). It worked fine. Rats.
So by now I'd replaced everything in the box--everything important, at least--except the mobo and the processor. I spied an FIC P2 mobo with a BX chipset at Software and Stuff for 30 bucks. I bought it. I was playing the odds. Mobos go bad more often than CPUs do, especially when you're not overclocking. And if I was wrong, I have other Slot 1 processors. The only other Slot 1 mobo I have is one of the really old LX-based boards that only has a 66 MHz bus.
Why pay $30 for an obsolete mobo when you can get a modern board for $50 or $60 and put a nice Duron or Athlon CPU on it? I doubted the power supply would handle it well. Spend $30 more on a mobo, and $30 more on a new CPU, then you have to replace the power supply as well. Suddenly $30 more has become $100.
The FIC is a much nicer board, even though the specs are very similar. It has one more DIMM slot than the Intel board had. It has no onboard sound, but it has one more available PCI slot. Expandability comes out a draw (you'll use the extra PCI slot to hold a sound card), but you get your choice. You can put in something equivalent to the midrange Yamaha sound built into the Intel board. Or you can put in a high-end card. The board itself has a lot more configuration options, and even with the default options it boots a lot faster.
This G6-400 has a microATX power supply in it. At least it looks like a microATX power supply, and a lot of people who sell eMachines-compatible microATX boxes claim they'll also fit a G6. Why Gateway put a small-form factor, low-power power supply in what was at the time of manufacture the second-fastest PC on the market, I have no idea. Unless the idea was to make lots of money selling replacement power supplies. The plus side is, at least it really is ATX, unlike Dell, who uses something that looks like ATX but isn't. (You'll blow up the mobo if you plug an ATX power supply into a Dell mobo or a Dell power supply into a standard ATX mobo.)
Fortunately, this case has screw holes in the standard ATX places as well. Unfortunately, the opening in the back isn't big enough to accomodate any standard ATX power supply I've ever seen (the opening blocks the power plug). Someone willing to resort to violence with a hacksaw, Dremel (or similar tool), or tin snips could hack an opening big enough to accomodate a replacement box. More on that in a bit.
I pulled the Intel mobo and dropped in the FIC replacement. Unfortunately, the case used one big block for all the case switches. Since nobody's ever standardized the header block for the and reset switches and lights, that's a problem unless you're replacing boards with a board from the same manufacturer (assuming manufacturers never change their header block pinouts, which isn't exactly a safe assumption). But that wasn't the only problem I ran into with this motherboard swap.
Remember that power supply I told you about? Turns out the power lead on it is just long enough to reach the power connector on the Intel mobo the machine came with, in front of the memory slots. FIC put its power connector on the other side of the CPU, and the cable is about half an inch too short to reach. Good luck finding an ATX power extender cable. Directron.com has one for $5, but the minimum order is $10 and that's before shipping. A search on Pricewatch.com only listed a couple of places having them. Pricing was under $10, but then there's shipping. I found one computer store in south St. Louis County that had ONE in stock. "They're not cheap," the salesperson warned me. I asked how much. $16.95. "You're not kidding," I said. That's half the price of a new 300W power supply. Of course, by the time you pay $5 online and $10 to ship it, $16.95 looks a lot more reasonable, doesn't it? And if your case won't accomodate a standard ATX power supply, either buying one of these or buying a similarly overpriced microATX power supply may be your only choice.
To get things up and going, I just jerry-rigged it. I ran the power cables and found a place to rest the power supply where it wouldn't short out anything. Then I shorted the power leads on the mobo with a screwdriver, and booted Windows 98 in safe mode. It booted up just fine, after insisting on running Scandisk. I booted into regular mode, which insisted on running Scandisk again. It worked beautifully. I did some very minor optimizations (Network server in filesystem settings, turning off Active Desktop, etc.) and rebooted a few times. No problems. No weirdness. Everything was smooth and fluid.
The chances of me ever buying a Gateway (new at least) already approached zero before this adventure. The few Gateways I dealt with in my years doing desktop support always had goofy problems that I usually had to reinstall the OS to resolve. Meanwhile, the Micron or Dell in the next cubicle over kept on chugging away, never needing anything more than basic maintenance.
This motherboard swap is easily the most painful swap I've ever done. It worked in the end, but the power supply was an annoyance and an unplanned expense. The header block was an annoyance.
So if you're thinking about a motherboard swap in a Gateway, particularly a G6 series, don't plan on it being a walk in the park.
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Tuesday, November 26 2002 @ 09:34 AM CST |
I use a Gateway G6-450 as my everyday machine. I've had some annoyances with it, but mainly due to software. You need a software patch from Intel to make the thing behave somewhat well under NT4. I say "somewhat" because the machine would still lock fairly regularly after the patch. Upgrading to Win2K solved the issue.
I've got the machine dual-booted for those rare occasions when I need Win98 (primarily to make a boot disk). Never had much problem under that OS, but then again, I rarely use it.
Overall, I've been fairly happy with my Gateway, but I've also never run into any issues that require parts replacement (I've only added memory, and a SCSI card and burner). I do know - from looking at a relative's computer's specs last night - that Gateway seems to underpower their machines. Is a 90W PS really acceptable, even for a 400 MHz Celeron with just a hard drive and a CD-ROM? I still consider Compaq to be more evil when it comes to custom form factors, but I think I'm done with pre-packaged machines. Too many cut corners.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Tuesday, November 26 2002 @ 09:47 AM CST |
While I agree that this particular Gateway box sounds perfectly awful, I've had a Gateway PIII-600 midtower for several years now and have been quite happy with it. Intel BX motherboard and std 250W ATX power supply. The case is great - nice solid steel, easy to get into & install expansion cards, swap out drives, etc... Never had a moment's trouble with it. Also heard similar good comments on Micron gear.
Now on the gripping hand, I've seen lots of cheap, fragile equip from Dell. And don't get me started on Dell's non-standard "standard" ATX power supplies... ;) I've had both desktop and laptop equip from Dell at work and would never spend my own money on such stuff.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Tuesday, November 26 2002 @ 12:08 PM CST |
Steve said it best when he mentioned pre-packaged machines and too many cut cornes. Lets face it: Dell, Compaq, Gateway and the like don't make machines that are supposed to be upgraded. They want you to scrap your machine and buy a new one instead once your machine is too old or needs to be upgraded.
/Dave T.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Tuesday, November 26 2002 @ 01:06 PM CST |
Yep. You can do it, but it's not as easy as if you bought and assembled components in the first place.
In defense of Compaq, it's been several years since I've seen a PC from them in a proprietary form-factor. One of the churches I work with bought a bunch of Deskpros on my recommendation about two years ago, mostly because they were available and dirt cheap. It turned out they were run-of-the-mill microATX boxes with a Compaq case badge. They even had an Award BIOS. Compaq's servers are still proprietary, but so are most companies' servers. Any mission-critical server should be on a service contract anyway, so getting spare parts is Compaq's problem, not yours.
I worked out the header block problem by prying up the plastic tabs with a small screwdriver and yanking out the wires. I connected the individual wires up to the mobo, powered up to make sure I got them right (it took a few tries), then put the wires back in the header one by one. The keypin was a problem; I used the hot needle (actually a bent paper clip) trick to take care of that.
I understand the reasoning behind that design--it makes swapping the motherboard with an identical board much faster and easier. It's emphasis on field service over emphasis on upgradability.
I solved the other problem with the $17 extension cable. Overpriced, but it's up and running, today. I threw in a 3Com NIC and connected it up to my LAN to run Windows Update. It's back together and running as I speak. The upside is that store is about 5 miles from where I live and the people who work there are tech-heads, not salespeople. Sincere, honest, and knowledgeable. They've been in business almost 20 years and I think I see why. Most of the computer stores in St. Louis are way north, so it's nice to know there's someplace close to get parts.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Wednesday, December 04 2002 @ 03:22 AM CST |
"the hard drive made an ominous noise"
At least I know I wasn't hearing things in my head.
I'm working on the G6-400 and I just heard that sound an hour ago. This is my first attempt at "fixing" a PC. I'm thinking the hard drive is dead since the IDE Auto Detection can only see the DVD Drive. If that turns out to be the problem then I'll get learn how to install a new HD. If that's what it's even called "installing a HD". I just hope I didn't bite off more that I can chew. Dave's story of endurance was encouraging. I'll be praying for this motherboard tonight.
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Tuesday, January 07 2003 @ 10:52 AM CST |
| am trying to upgrade my g6-450 and was wondering whether to cram a new motherboard into the case or buy a new case for the new motherboard. your stuff really helped make up my mind. thanks! [ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Tuesday, January 07 2003 @ 07:49 PM CST |
I have a G6-400, purchase July 1998 at an astonding price of $3000 plus. I have had my share of problems, but no more than others I know and their brand of machine.
I have maximized the ram (384), upgraded to 40 gig-7200 rpm drive, and installed a video editting card to this old beast (older Pinnicle). I have on the way a USB 2.0. card. I am lastly considering (actually waiting on money to fall into my lap) adding a Radeon 7000 PCI-64 and a SoundBlaster Audigy Audio w/ IEEE 1394 to spruce it up a bit. I am interested in putting video onto to CD's, or if possible, DVD's.
Does anyone think, or know if, my machine would handle DVD recording?
Any comments to my above computers life story?
Thanks
PS If you are having problems with a hard drive error: "Can't write to drive c" -or- "serious error writing to drive c", update the bios to the one ending in "-21". I found this out after going through 3 hard drives, all of which were okay.
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Wednesday, January 08 2003 @ 05:04 AM CST |
I'd pick up a cheap Duron/Athlon XP system, but that's just me. Much more bang for the buck. You can look at Dave's video editing threads for more info.
(looks at parts that have yet to be made into a PC and sighs)
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 10:51 AM CDT |
I've just got to say that having had the displeasure of working with old gateway computers for the last month, that they are all particuarly shocking. Currently reinstalling win98 on a GP6-400 with the original gateway restore disk - worked well apart from it didnt install all the drivers, which is the only reason i used the f*@£ing thing cause i dont know what the hell its integrated sound and graphics are....
Everything is bad about this particuarly awful brand of computers. Glad they went bust in the UK all we'd probably have new ones, now that would be enough to turn me in my grave...[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Wednesday, August 13 2003 @ 02:15 PM CDT |
| Jared, I *think* the Belarc Advisor (free from Crucial) might be able to help you out with hardware determination. It's been a while since I've seen one of its reports, but it's worth a shot. [ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Thursday, August 21 2003 @ 02:39 AM CDT |
I acquired one of these ghastly machines these (a GP6-400) for free (with scrubbed HD) when work had a clear out.
I have had RedHat8, RedHat9 and Win95 installed on it. RedHat8 really doesn't like the on board graphics (Riva128) at all (recognises it, but can't drive it); used a Matrox PCI video card instead. But RedHat9 has newer XFree (4.3.0?) and works great (1024x768x16bitx70Hz anyway).
Win95 with drivers from NV website is good but running in 1024x768 has video quality problems (which don't affect Redhat strangely) which can sometimes be fixed by wiggling the cable, sometimes not. May be the crappy monitor I'm using or the worn out wobbly VGA socket on the mobo, and/or trying to go too fast for the monitor (NVidia driver doesn't actually let you set the screen refresh frequency explicitly: just to specify "optimal" or "default"). 800x600 is fine though.
Haven't tried to do anything with sound yet. One attempt to install an AWE64 in the ISA slot caused chaos (unbootable system). Annoyingly the BIOS doesn't have options to explicitly disable onboard audio/video
PCI NIC card (3com) works fine.
Choice of PCI slot for video & NIC seems to be quite crucial though.
This machine has consumed an amount of time out of all proportion to it's performance. At the same time I managed to scavenge enough bits to cobble together an AMD XP1700+ with a TNT2 and SCSI drives, and that just worked with no messing about whatsoever.
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Friday, August 22 2003 @ 11:10 PM CDT |
comment What do you think about Sony computers?
Are they any good? I bought one and was told that it had 80 gigs. Now I learn that c drive has 13 and d drive has 55. Is that okay? What can be moved to d drive - just MY documents and work? Karkee
Friday, August 22, 2003
I really need some advise as to whether to keep this computer or take it back. It has an Intel Pentium 4 processor. I am a senior citizen and am disabled with
a lot of spinal cord damage. I don't need to be ripped off. I don't seem to be getting very good answers from the Techs. at Sony.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Monday, September 01 2003 @ 03:52 PM CDT |
| I have a g6-400 and am running windows xp professional and it seems to be just fine. I was wanting to upgrade to a p4 (from p2 400mhz) and found an adaptor for a slot 1 to socket 478 but it wasnt cheap. I was thinking it would just be better to buy a whole new case and start over and customize my pc as I go. The only problem I have is choosing which video card to choose. I'm running on a Radeon 7000 64mb card but was wondering which video card is the best for gaming? [ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Wednesday, September 17 2003 @ 11:40 AM CDT |
| Help! I read Dave's dilema with great empathy. I can definitely relate to this situation. I attempted to set up my kid's Gateway G6-400 after about a year of it being unplugged. When I plugged it in I could hear the fan and a high pitched screeching sound. No other activity was apparent. Any insight to what might be the problem. I am willing replace whatever I need to for this machine to run again. Do you think it is a power supply or motherboard? Please help... [ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Thursday, December 18 2003 @ 09:38 PM CST |
| Lights on, but not POST'ing is usually motherboard. First, disconnect everythin that isn't neccessary (power and cables from hard drive, cdrom, etc), remove all cards except video, etc. If it still don't work, its likely motherboard, as CPUs don't go bad very often. [ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Sunday, December 21 2003 @ 02:25 AM CST |
I hadn't even realized Dave wrote an article about this particular model of Gateway PC. I'm typing this on a G6-400 that has happily churned away since 1998. I have upgraded the system to 384 MB of RAM (maximum) from Crucial.com, a 1,000 MHz Intel Pentium III processor (Slot 1 / SECC2, 100 MHz FSB, SL4KL), and a 30 GB 7,200 RPM Maxtor hard disc drive. It is running Microsoft Windows XP Professional with Service Pack 1a, and I can't remember the last time it produced any sort of error. This machine is rarely restarted.
I'm considering adding a good Plextor DVD-ROM / CD-RW combination drive and possibly a USB 2.0 PCI card. This is actually my mother-in-law's computer, but I upgrade it for her for free because my wife and I live with her for free.
I'm a bit skeptical about the printer my wife bought her for Christmas. It's a Canon BubbleJet i250. ZDNet and CNET gave it good reviews (though preferring the slightly more expensive i350), so I doubt I'll have problems with the hardware or print quality. My only hope is that Canon has developed stable device drivers...
As for the video card (STB Velocity 128 using the nVidia Riva 128ZX chipset), I think we'll leave that in there for now. It's 2D performance is acceptable, and there are no 3D games installed on this computer.
My mother-in-law and I fully expect this PC to fulfill her computing needs for at least another three years.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Friday, December 26 2003 @ 05:05 PM CST |
| Well I have one of those ghastly g6-400 gateways and have only one problem with it.........technology has left it in the dust. While i'm currently running win xp pro, using a great graphics card and 5.1 surrounds on the audiology sound card i want more ram than this baby can handle since i like to do graphics. Currently running 256 of ram and bought a 128 stick to slip in there, however, poor baby doesn't want to recognize the new ram. Any suggestions? btw - my baby's been a great computer and this from someone who has to deal with fixing the 3 dells the kids have, the 2 compaq's that parent's bought (silly them) and several sony's..........grrrrrrrrr. [ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Monday, January 19 2004 @ 06:19 AM CST |
I came across some information that might be relevant to this page (will cross-post to the Dell / Gateway upgrade caveats page).
PC Power & Cooling sells the SFX (which I think stands for small form factor ATX) power supplies used by 1999+ Gateway PCs in 180W varieties for $45. I just ordered one for my wife's computer that I'm upgrading. Her little 90W power supply may not provide enough wattage for the upgrades I'm adding. So it never hurts to be safe instead of sorry. Besides - it blows more air than the Gateway one, so it'll probably stay cooler, too.
PC Power & Cooling also makes the Dell ATX variety of power supplies. Nifty![ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: dcook32p on Monday, March 08 2004 @ 02:34 PM CST |
I had a great e-mail correspondence with one of your readers a few days ago. He gave me permission to post it here. His words are in bold.
Changing Gateway from PII to PIII. Is it ok to use 133 bus speed cpu or is it important to stay with 100 bus such as PIII 850/256/100?
All Gateway G6-400 series motherboards (with the possible exception of one G6-400 that uses a 400 MHz Celeron on a 66 MHz bus) require a bus speed of 100 MHz for proper operation. You can, in theory, overclock the chipset to 133 MHz, but you will probably experience problems with your video board and some PCI devices. Therefore, the fastest CPU your system will support is a 1,000 MHz Pentium III on a 100 MHz bus.
The CPU mounting post on the motherboard is slightly different for PII ver PIII? Any problems with that?
Various revisions of the Intel motherboards used in the Gateways were stocked with different retention mechanisms. The one in my particular computer used two non-retaining plastic posts, a cross bar, and two coarse threaded hexagonal screws. The cross bar would fit over the processor and the two posts. The screws were then used to attach the cross bar to said posts. This does a fairly good, if not at all elegant, job of retaining the processor. If your system uses a similar setup then you will most likely have no problem. However, if your system uses retaining posts then there is no guarantee an SECC 2 processor will fit into your system.
--- Dustin D. Cook, A+
dcook32p@htcomp.net [ Reply to This ]
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