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| A truth about Mormonism |
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Sunday, December 22 2002 @ 10:20 AM CST By David L. Farquhar
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Charlie Sebold (on Mormonism): Part of their strategy is to convince you that they are normal Christians and not weird people who revise history to exclude painful moments like Brigham Young's Avenging Angels, racism, polygamy, and so forth. And now (as Tracey said a moment later), they are appropriating Luther's name to set themselves forth as good Protestants. Clever.
It goes beyond just that too. I just had a conversation the other night about Mormonism with someone in my Bible study. Most of the weird rumors about Mormonism, like becoming gods and goddesses, secret rituals, baptisms of the dead, and holy underwear, have an element of truth to them, if they're not true outright.
But the Mormons' TV commercials suggest it's just another mainline Protestant church. Talk to the Mormon missionaries who come to your door, and the only differences that are likely to come up between their church cult and the church down the street is that they abstain from alcohol and caffeine, and perhaps that they have a second set of scriptures called the Book of Mormon.
They almost certainly won't tell you that the Garden of Eden was Jackson County, Missouri, and that when Jesus comes again, He's going to set up the New Jerusalem in the vicinity of Independence, Missouri.
They won't tell you this stuff because they don't know.
That's one of the really big differences between Christianity and Mormonism. The various denominations can look very different, sadly, and that's really confusing--and it plays right into the Mormons' hand. But whether you're Lutheran or Methodist or Nazarene or Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholic or Assemblies of God or Messianic Judaism, there aren't any secrets. Everything the religion teaches is right there. It's in one big, indimidating-looking book, but it's all there. The shelves and shelves of books that most clergy have just provide commentary and insight on that one book--they don't add anything to it.
The Bible has different things to say to kids than it has to say to adults, but that's strictly because of levels of understanding. You don't study 1 Timothy in second grade because most second graders can't understand it.
Which also plays right into the Mormons' hand. A new convert to Mormonism can't go into the temple or know other things because he or she can't handle it yet.
But that's another big difference between Mormonism and true Christianity. In Mormonism, you attain the various higher levels. You work, and you earn your way, and the very best workers eventually become gods. That's how you tell the difference between Christianity and a cult--in Christianity, you don't earn stuff. Jesus already earned everything. So the focus is on God. In a cult, the focus is on you. That's also what makes cults attractive, because Americans like to do stuff.
Some Christian denominations have reputations for being more cult-like than others. The attribute that makes those denominations more cult-like is the focus moving from what God does to what you do. What we do isn't particularly relevant. What's important is what God did--Jesus righted all wrongs on that cross nearly 2,000 years ago--and what God continues to do in your life and mine, today. Get past giving yourself credit for the good things you manage to do in spite of your humanity and attribute them instead to God working in you and through you, and you'll reach new heights of mental health. I guarantee it.
The Mormon interpretation of God isn't like that at all. The way the Mormons tell it, God the Father and Jesus Christ are little more than intergalactic cheerleaders, sitting on the sidelines, rooting for us.
I don't need a cheerleader. I need help.
Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were con men. But I have to give them credit for being very brilliant con men. They built something brilliant. Hide the truth about your teachings by not teaching the people who bring new converts in. Train them up in how to talk about their faith, rather than in what their faith actually teaches. Of course a Mormon missionary is going to deny the weird things about their faith when they have no reason to believe those weird things actually exist.
I'll end with this. If the Mormons are right, I'm OK. If I haven't already been baptized by proxy into the Mormon faith, I will be. According to the Mormons, the only people who spend eternity in hell are the people who were Mormons and subsequently leave the faith. If the Mormons are right, I won't get very high in the intergalactic hierarchy that they believe is still to come, but I won't end up in hell.
If Mormonism is right, since I'm male, I get a pretty sweet deal. Mormonism has nothing desirable to offer women, other than eternity serving as baby factories.
But if Mormonism is wrong and Christianity is right, there's a serious problem. It's hard for a Mormon to know that the only way to get right with God is to confess that we're sinners and accept what Jesus Christ did for us in His life and death. They're too busy doing stuff. It's not impossible for a Mormon to believe that. But if you follow the practices of Mormonism, you're not going to have a healthy relationship with God, and you're going to be very distracted from what it is that God really wants.
And the God of Christianity sees women as people. Not baby factories.
I know which one I want.
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Sunday, December 22 2002 @ 11:59 AM CST |
AFAIK the most-visible exponent of Mormonism as a cult for many years has been John Ankerberg.
And the God of Christianity sees women as people. Not baby factories.
I know which one I want.
Amen to that.
[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Sunday, December 22 2002 @ 01:54 PM CST |
Dave,
"Who made the profits from these sales? The high priestly families, for they controlled the temple and its precincts. Hmmm. What would they think of Jesus? Luke 19:47 says: "The chief priests, the scribes and the leaders of the people kept looking for a way to kill him...." The Gospels tell us that the religious elite conspired with the Romans to get rid of Jesus."
http://www.congregationalchurch.org/biblestudy/bible037.htm
In all religions consider the above. Young men such as yourself can make a difference in this world as long as you look to the humility of Jesus.
Joseph[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Sunday, December 22 2002 @ 02:23 PM CST |
hey...you know, you're stunningly right on and honest. i'm one of those apostate Mormons who'll be burnt to stubble and sent to 'outer darkness' forever, because i LEFT the church. what you've said about the church cult is 100% true.
believe me. i was once on the inside. ;)[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Friday, February 07 2003 @ 01:13 AM CST |
Im an agnostic newly mormon convert looking for answers to some questions.......
I cant say i agree with all that you say, but some i can defininately take into consideration...
Thank you[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Wednesday, July 02 2003 @ 01:31 PM CDT |
[expletive deleted --DF] That was the most false article i have ever read. I may not be a Mormon, but i have studied religion for many years. [As have I. --DF] All sorts of religions. [As have I. --DF] And if you had a brain [I do], you would know what the definition of Christian is. [Yes, one who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and believes in one Bible and doesn't try to add anything to it. --DF] Mormon is just a nickname and it is Christianity. Anyone who worships and believes in the Lord Jesus Christ. [Mormons don't worship Jesus Christ.] Mormons clearly believe in Jesus cause its in the name....Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. Mormons don't earn anything, become gods and gods and godesses. Wow, thats the funniest thing i have read all year. You clearly don't know anything about their religion. Study the religion [I have] before you publish [expletive deleted] articles like this. People like you really [expletive deleted] me off. Its all lies, and nobody should believe your garbage. You are just out there to make false statements about other religions. I sure hope you won't have kids, cause we dont need any more idiots in this world.
[Joshua, another post like this and I'll ban your IP address. I greatly admire people who substitute swearing for thought. And yes, I can go back and edit comments and I have no qualms whatsoever about doing so. If you don't like it, set up your own website. --Dave][ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Wednesday, July 02 2003 @ 01:36 PM CDT |
what god really wants? What god really wants, is for people like you to shut the hell up.
James 2:20 "Faith without works is dead" You have to do more than just believe in God to get into Heaven, you actually have to do something smart guy.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Wednesday, July 02 2003 @ 05:15 PM CDT |
Joshua, Joshua, Joshua. I say your name thrice since I gather from the Fleisch-Kincaid score of your comment that you probably do not comprehend anything said only twice. Unfortunately, by his posting of overhyphenated, miscapitalized, and mispunctuated vulgarity, Joshua may have blocked his public library Internet terminal access to this page. I will assume he can read this, in the hopes that he may benefit from my usual insightful analysis.
Matters of belief aside, I must point out some glaring logical errors in your "dissertation" (that means treatise or "a lot of words"), Joshua. Truth is a Boolean value; an article cannot be "most false". It is either true or false, completely. This is called "logic", which you may not learn in your American public education system. Perhaps in the latter years of your schooling.
And which religions have you studied? Scientology? The Raelian religion? The Church of Bob? Those seem like a good fit for you, since they share many characteristics with the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus - particularly, that they are all complete fabrications.
You would claim knowledge of what Mormons believe. Given that their temple rituals and many of their beliefs are held most secretively, and you are not a Mormon, I fail to see how you can claim any authority. On the other hand, I have heard over the years from sources wide and far - many of whom are people who have left the church - that godlike attributes and planet-filling procreation are rewards in the afterlife, and these are tenets of the religion. Perhaps not the tenets that Mormons advertise, for obvious reasons. And thus the "Christian" mask. At worst, you may call this evidence anecdotal, but again it is corroborated, which is much stronger than "oh, they do not!". Furthermore, since your comment was primarily driven by emotion and backed by pedestrian grammatical skills, I see your argument as, how did you say it, "Bull-shite"? Yes, aristocrats can add trailing "e"'s wherever we wish. Strangely, a similar symbol (a schwah - that's an "uppie-side down e", Joshua) on Joseph Smith's famed golden tablets translated into 40 words. He was _truly_ inspired...
L. Ron Hubbard once said that the best way to control people and make money was to create a religion. And so he did. Let me posit that Joseph Smith was ahead of his time. This is clear to any student of comparative religion. Alas, I cannot include you in _that_ group, Joshua, only in the group of those who argue with their hearts, not their minds.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Friday, July 04 2003 @ 07:16 PM CDT |
David. (Did you know your name means beloved?) You are beloved of God.
In response to your post.
Actually the Greek in James says that faith that is not demonstrated by works is dead. Faith does work, but the work does not create the faith, faith creates the work. This is why the Bible calls works spiritual fruits. Trees produce fruit; the fruit does not produce the tree. But the fruit can contain seed that sowed into fertile ground can produce other trees.
James is written to people who believe because they ahve grace they can do any sin they want. The appropriate comment is to say, look faith bring new life adn new action. But new life and new action are produced by faith not the source of faith.
How does God save someone?
Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace (free gift) you are saved through faith; and that is not of yourselves (not a work) it is the gift of God; not as a result of works so that no one may boast.
Romans 3:20 by works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight.
Why? Romans 3:23 all have sinnd and fall short of the glory of God.
How are we saved? Not by what we do, but by what Jesus did. If it was by our works, all we needed was a clear guideline and Jesus would only be a new lawgiver. There would have been no need for a cross, only clarity. But instead we have a cross. Why? Because we can't fix it.
But He can. AND He did.
all have sinned and (Rom 3:24) salvation is a gift of His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.
Grace to you![ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Friday, September 19 2003 @ 12:55 AM CDT |
| I only wish that what you said could be true because it would make all those struggling to live the faith much easier. But frankly, this article bashing their beliefs is nothing more than garbage. Yes, it is different than any other religion, but it doesn't change its principles through time as others seemingly do. I'm not an expert on religion, but if you look at the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints around you, hopefully you will see people that are caring, loving, and trying to follow Christ's example. Any Christian does the same, why are mormons viewed as being so different? [ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Friday, September 19 2003 @ 03:38 PM CDT |
Yeah, Mormons are cultists. So are Lutherans, Methodists, Nazarenes, Eastern Orthodoxists, Roman Catholics, Assemblers of God, Messianic Jews, and so on.
Like you say, most of those "weird rumors" have at least an element of truth to them, but I don't find them sinister. So they're different from your version of Christianity, big deal. Religions always look weird from the outside. Sinister stuff? Ask the Lutherans about infant damnation, or the Catholics why every Catholic school student that I have ever met experienced emotional or physical abuse at the hands of a clinically sadistic priest or nun.
My understanding was always that the purported locations of the Garden of Eden and the New Jerusalem were not big secrets, more like answers to a couple of Mormon trivial pursuit questions. I was always told that Outer Darkness (the only hell-like punishment in the Mormon version of the afterlife) was not for ordinary backsliders (like me!) but for people more like Judas or Satan, who had a much closer, first-hand relation to God but who knowingly rebelled against him. Lots of religious people (Orthodox Jews, Sikhs, et al) wear special symbolic clothes to remind them of their religious obligations. If it wasn't "underwear", no one would snicker at the Mormons.
A lot of Mormon theology is best understood as an attempt to address some features of Christian thought that had become troubling by the early 19th century. Baptisms for the dead, where Mormons perform proxy baptisms for those who died without being baptized into the one true church of Christ ;), are just a response to the scripture about how no one enters the Kingdom of Heaven without being properly baptized. Weird, sure, but is that more troubling than believing that the vast majority of humanity will go to hell because of the accident of the time and place of their birth? [Just so nobody out there gets too complacent, those dead no-Mos still have to opt in before the final judgment.] The eventually-becoming-gods-and-goddesses thing, hoo boy, yeah that's weird, but aren't we supposedly the children of God? What kind of God would make such limited, demented children that we remain his toys forever?
It is fair, IMHO, to criticize the Mormon church for its traditional culture of roles for women. They still mostly believe in the housewife/mother role, like in Leave It To Beaver. They're opposed to abortion. But they don't treat women as "baby factories", that's just slander. It's more that traditional mix of genuine reverence and respect for women while mostly consigning them to background and household roles. This *is* stifling to women IMHO, which is why feminism & the role of women is one of the sources of friction within the church itself. But Mormons certainly believe that women are fully the equals of men. Mormon trivial pursuit 1: In 1870, in the early Mormon settlements in Utah, women were given the right to vote for local officials. This right was taken away by Congress in 1887, once the American frontier caught up with the Mormons. Mormon trivial pursuit 2: in 1896, Utahns elected America's first female state senator. Mormon trivial pursuit 3: in 1912, the Utah town of Kanab elected America's first all-women mayor and town board.
It is true & fair, IMHO, to criticize the Mormon church for trying to suppress inquiry into embarrassing aspects of their past. To be fair, I have met very few people of any stripe who can handle an impartial inquiry into the history of their ethnic or religious group.
Mormons do have a fascinating history and some uncommon beliefs, but anyone interested in finding out more runs into the same problem as someone who wants to find out more about, say, the history of Judaism and Israel. There is some embarrassing dirt, but there is also a long history of prejudice and persecution that colors both the historical record and current sources. Anyone who wants to find out more should be aware that there are a lot of haters out there.
Sign me an ex-Mormon, current atheist[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Tuesday, December 16 2003 @ 05:02 PM CST |
Whoever think that Mormons don't believe that they can become gods are nuts. My husband's whole family are mormons. They think they are working up to becoming gods. It is so sad to see them working, and working and working, with out really truly experiencing what God has done for us. They really are great people. Just totally brain washed. Angers me to think that they are so ignorant. I really appreciate your willingness to share the truth. I agreed with what you said. God will bless you for your good works, not that you need them to get to heaven.
Sarah[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Tuesday, December 16 2003 @ 08:58 PM CST |
Moremans are brainwashed. But theyt are brainwashed 1000% more than other religions. They are a cult- no doubt about it.
They obviusly don't use any type of stimulants so they try to get pleasure by eating large quantitys of ice-cream and other unhealthy foods. Thats why Utah has a really high heart attack rate. There are way too many moremans arround where I live.
And the biggest thing. They require there teens to go to brainwashing sessions...I meand services at like 6 in the morning. And they treat their women like baby-factorys. [ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Saturday, January 03 2004 @ 12:52 AM CST |
RE:Why mormons wont tell you the weird stuff. "They won't tell you this stuff because they don't know."
Actually, haveing been a mormon, I can tell you that the 'good mormons' do know. I knew the teaching on becoming gods, getting our own planet, having sex in heaven and that the moon had people who looked like the Quakers living on the otherside. So, next time they play dumb, don't let them fool you. They know.
Shannon[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Saturday, January 03 2004 @ 01:06 AM CST |
Hi - re. the statement by Josh implying that Mormons are Christians just like anyone else - the next time a Mormon comes up to you and announces what organization they are with, pay CLOSE attention. They will say that they are members of the "Church of Jesus Christ." Period. I spoke with a Mormon colleague of mine a while ago and I had to press him to "come clean" that he was in fact a Mormon. He defended this practice by stating that he was just like any other Christian. In fact, the reason they leave off "of Latter Day Saints" is because they know that people may tune them out since the majority of us know who Latter Day Saints are.
Mike
PS I married a recovering Mormon[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ImportedComment on Sunday, January 18 2004 @ 01:13 PM CST |
| I suggest you all read John Krakauer's "Under the Banner of Heaven." He raises some very interesting questions about the Mormon church. It was as a result of this book that I am now online myself looking deeper into the mysteries surrounding the "church." He sites many other relevant histories of the Mormons in his book as well. WIthout getting into too many details here, what has been said earlier seems supported. There is a lot of truth to many of the "rumors." I just recently revisited some online sites about Scientology and to be honest the similarities scare me. You don't know all the truth until you get INSIDE and by then it may be too late. [ Reply to This ]
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